Well done UmbertoEcho..
You're an inspiration to us all :)
defender of truth
JoinedPosts by defender of truth
-
69
Could the Independent Inquiry in England and Wales expose jw.org's child abuse failures? And how can we help?
by defender of truth inwith all the talk about the org's policies and failures regarding child sexual abuse being publically exposed in australia, i thought that it may be a good time to highlight this... i apologise if this has already been discussed, but on the 9th of july the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse in england and wales was opened.
here is some information regarding it's aims.. "about the inquiry.
the inquiry offers an unprecedented opportunity to examine the extent to which institutions and organisations in england and wales have taken seriously their responsibility to protect children.. the inquiry will investigate a wide range of institutions including:.
-
-
defender of truth
-
49
Phone call straight after the Royal Commission
by umbertoecho instraight after the commission ended today within minutes, the phone rang.
it was one of the people who are working on it.
firstly she established if i was alright and did i want to talk.. i said i was too tired and unhappy that geoffrey jackson managed to do some preaching....she said they were aware of that.
-
-
defender of truth
I'd just like to put UmbertoEcho's excellent OP side-by-side with a Jehovah's Witness view from a pro JW forum..
If you have a similar sense of humour to me, it may amuse you.. Anyway.
UmbertoEcho:
Straight after the commission ended today within minutes, the phone rang. It was one of the people who are working on it. Firstly she established if I was alright and did I want to talk.
I said I was too tired and unhappy that Geoffrey Jackson managed to do some preaching....
She said they were aware of that.
Then I said.."You know he was lying don't you, he was lying about the role of the GB in many subtle ways and not so subtle ways?" .............
"Oh we knew that all along,we had the documents right here with us".
I then said...." You do realize he is one of seven men who vote on policy and they don't sit around prayerfully as Jackson maintained, they just vote and sometimes the deciding factor is perhaps one vote?"
She said she knew that too, and for me not to be too worried about the commission being fooled, for they were not fooled at all.
I asked her if she really thought for one minute that the society is feeling bad about the plight of sexually molested children? And " You do know this is all about money don't you?".....
Yes, she said they all knew it was about showing a façade of decency and holding onto money.
...OH!!!! Dear old Geoff made a few enemies today when he talked about a mother grooming her child to accuse the father of molestation....They thought it a dirty cheap shot..!
View of a Jehovah's Witness:
I personally think Brother Jacksons testimony was the best thing that has ever happened in relation to the issue of child abuse within our organisation.
He skilfully and humbly answered their questions using the bible and sound reasoning. He clarified various issues and corrected the commissions wrong assumptions.
He humbly acknowledged where our organisation could do better to help the trauma of abuse victims.
He expressed his love for and sympathy for the individuals who were abused and who gave testimony to the commission.
He gave a fine witness about the governing body's love for all of the sheep especially those who have been hurt in such a bad way and their desire "more than they will ever know" to fix anything that could be causing distress for the sheep.
Brother Jackson was extremely respectful and humble.
Telling the lawyers and the chair how good some of their questions were and how he thought the commissions work would ultimately help the sheep and help the organisation deal with such a distressful and delicate problem and that they only viewed it as a good thing.
Just his demeanour seemed to breed respect and you could tell that come the end the commission all including the lawyers seemed to be happy with the information that they had got.
In fact a lot of their concerns had been addressed and so they could see that there would be a probable solution to many of their concerns,
I really liked the obvious concern Brother Jackson had for the abuse victims though and I think even though we all knew it, it was something that everybody needed to hear, including the abuse victims who were probably listening in.
I just get this feeling that after all that questioning, the brothers including the governing body are really going to do their best to iron out any problems there are and apply the commissions recommendations.
I think the testimony was a triumph for all parties
;)
-
41
Did Geoffrey Jackson Commit Perjury, or Just "Spiritual Warfare"?
by The Searcher inmr. jackson was pressured by angus stewart to answer if the org condoned corporal punishment, to which he openly stated that the org does not condone corporal punishment for j.w.
children.
this "fact" has never been revealed in the org's literature, in fact, this article which was published under geoffrey jackson's supervision, by definition demonstrates the org's approval of corporal punishment for j.w.
-
-
defender of truth
4 For fear of being accused of abuse—physical, verbal, or emotional—some parents shy away from correcting their children. We need not harbour such fears. The word “discipline” as used in the Bible does not imply any kind of abuse or cruelty.
17. What lesson in parental correction is provided at Isaiah 28:26-29?
...Some children respond to just a glance from their parents, and nothing more is needed. Others require repeated reminders, while still others may need persuasion of a stronger kind.
http://m.wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2001722?q=physical+discipline&p=par#h=6On Discipline:
Dr. James Dobson wrote in The Strong-Willed Child (1978): “Corporal punishment in the hands of a loving parent is a teaching tool by which harmful behavior is inhibited.”
On the other hand, in an article adapted from the seventh edition of the popular book Baby and Child Care (1998), Dr. Benjamin Spock said: “Spanking teaches children that the larger, stronger person has the power to get his way, whether or not he is in the right.”
With regard to discipline, the Bible states: “The rod and reproof are what give wisdom.” (Proverbs 29:15) However, not all children need physical punishment.
Proverbs 17:10 tells us: “A rebuke works deeper in one having understanding than striking a stupid one a hundred times.”
http://m.wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2006801?q=physical+discipline&p=par
God-fearing parents recognize that their children are “an inheritance from Jehovah.” (Psalm 127:3) Thus, they look to God’s Word, the Bible, for guidance in rearing them.
For example, Proverbs 13:24 says: “The one holding back his rod is hating his son, but the one loving him is he that does look for him with discipline.”
The Bible’s use of the word “rod” need not be understood to mean only physical punishment;...
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2001925
-
41
Did Geoffrey Jackson Commit Perjury, or Just "Spiritual Warfare"?
by The Searcher inmr. jackson was pressured by angus stewart to answer if the org condoned corporal punishment, to which he openly stated that the org does not condone corporal punishment for j.w.
children.
this "fact" has never been revealed in the org's literature, in fact, this article which was published under geoffrey jackson's supervision, by definition demonstrates the org's approval of corporal punishment for j.w.
-
-
defender of truth
Well the quotes and links in my last post (credit to Searcher for the idea), clearly show that physical punishment is condoned..
Here's another one from 2001:
God-fearing parents recognize that their children are “an inheritance from Jehovah.” (Psalm 127:3) Thus, they look to God’s Word, the Bible, for guidance in rearing them.
For example, Proverbs 13:24 says: “The one holding back his rod is hating his son, but the one loving him is he that does look for him with discipline.”
The Bible’s use of the word “rod” need not be understood to mean only physical punishment;...
Mind you, looking back at the transcript, he actually said that the organisation leaves it to the parents to decide, but that they do not encourage physical discipline.
He states that they have said in the literature time and time again, that 'discipline' in this scripture is not referring to corporal punishment, it's talking about a mental discipline (verbal correction and instruction, in other words).
Pages 19/20, read it yourself:
Royal Commission Geoffrey Jackson Transcript pdfSo, would anyone be kind enough to bring together all these Watchtower quotes and Jackson's words into one post? (Emailing it to the Commission would be really good, if anyone has time).
Thanks, Searcher, good topic.
-
69
Could the Independent Inquiry in England and Wales expose jw.org's child abuse failures? And how can we help?
by defender of truth inwith all the talk about the org's policies and failures regarding child sexual abuse being publically exposed in australia, i thought that it may be a good time to highlight this... i apologise if this has already been discussed, but on the 9th of july the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse in england and wales was opened.
here is some information regarding it's aims.. "about the inquiry.
the inquiry offers an unprecedented opportunity to examine the extent to which institutions and organisations in england and wales have taken seriously their responsibility to protect children.. the inquiry will investigate a wide range of institutions including:.
-
-
defender of truth
I think it will need a couple of real cases of abuse from the UK much like the Australian inquiry for them to get their teeth into if you want it to be featured.
Ever heard of Karen Morgan?
www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/jehovah-cult-kicked-out---8891636
Let us hope.. :)
-
41
Did Geoffrey Jackson Commit Perjury, or Just "Spiritual Warfare"?
by The Searcher inmr. jackson was pressured by angus stewart to answer if the org condoned corporal punishment, to which he openly stated that the org does not condone corporal punishment for j.w.
children.
this "fact" has never been revealed in the org's literature, in fact, this article which was published under geoffrey jackson's supervision, by definition demonstrates the org's approval of corporal punishment for j.w.
-
-
defender of truth
4 For fear of being accused of abuse—physical, verbal, or emotional—some parents shy away from correcting their children. We need not harbor such fears. The word “discipline” as used in the Bible does not imply any kind of abuse or cruelty. The Greek word for “discipline” primarily relates to instruction, education, correction and, at times, firm but loving chastisement.
17 Isaiah further compared Jehovah’s correction to another farming process—threshing. A farmer uses different threshing instruments according to the toughness of the chaff of the grain. A rod is used for tender black cumin and a staff for cumin, but a sledge or cart wheel is used for grains with tougher chaff. Still, he will not tread the harder grains to the point of crushing them. Likewise, when Jehovah wants to remove anything undesirable in his people, he varies his treatment according to existing needs and circumstances. He is never arbitrary or heavy-handed. (Isaiah 28:26-29) Some children respond to just a glance from their parents, and nothing more is needed. Others require repeated reminders, while still others may need persuasion of a stronger kind.
http://m.wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2001722?q=physical+discipline&p=par#h=6
With regard to discipline, the Bible states: “The rod and reproof are what give wisdom.” (Proverbs 29:15) However, not all children need physical punishment.
http://m.wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2006801?q=physical+discipline&p=par
Would anyone like to send these quotes, along with a quote of where Jackson said they don't condone physical punishment, to:
Email us
contact@childabuseroyalcommission
.gov.au
((I can't copy from PDF's, so I'd really appreciate it if someone could find time to put them together and email them))
I strongly feel that was an actual lie. :(
-
40
Petition for U.S. AG investigation.
by freemindfade innot sure if anything will come of this.
but i signed it.. https://www.change.org/p/united-states-attorney-general-investigate-the-watchtower-society-of-jehovah-s-witnesses-re-child-sexual-abuse?recruiter=363165656&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink.
-
-
defender of truth
Petitions that affect people in general, not just one relatively minor group, probably have the best chance of getting public interest and lots of signatures..
(Here is one example I personally would support)
Maybe someone could set one up on We the People to ask the government simply to "set up an Inquiry to investigate child sexual abuse in religious institutions", something like that?
As I said, aawa may help with effective wording, I have little to offer.. Best wishes, though :)
(Oh, and you can always email them directly with a link to a petition and see what they reply. Don't give up!!)
-
69
Could the Independent Inquiry in England and Wales expose jw.org's child abuse failures? And how can we help?
by defender of truth inwith all the talk about the org's policies and failures regarding child sexual abuse being publically exposed in australia, i thought that it may be a good time to highlight this... i apologise if this has already been discussed, but on the 9th of july the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse in england and wales was opened.
here is some information regarding it's aims.. "about the inquiry.
the inquiry offers an unprecedented opportunity to examine the extent to which institutions and organisations in england and wales have taken seriously their responsibility to protect children.. the inquiry will investigate a wide range of institutions including:.
-
-
defender of truth
BTTT.. Has anybody else sent an email asking the Inquiry to investigate the Jehovah's Witnesses organisation? -
40
Petition for U.S. AG investigation.
by freemindfade innot sure if anything will come of this.
but i signed it.. https://www.change.org/p/united-states-attorney-general-investigate-the-watchtower-society-of-jehovah-s-witnesses-re-child-sexual-abuse?recruiter=363165656&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink.
-
-
defender of truth
Sorry about the formatting, but hopefully the last post was still readable.. I'll just highlight these points..
"Change.org petitions have no power in themselves, they are just a platform.
We the People petitions need 100,000 signatures to get an official response.
If you want help to put together a well-worded (as in legally well worded, for example I personally would leave out the "mentally diseased and apostate lies stuff", this is going to the government and they don't have a clue what you're talking about.)..
I'd recommend contacting AAWA and get a We the People petition arranged.
www.aawa.co/about-aawa/contact-us/
Or at least get advice from them on how to get a petition you write media attention.
www.change.org/en-GB/guides/get-the-story-to-media
Just trying to help,I'm not having a go here..
Best of luck with your good idea ;) -
40
Petition for U.S. AG investigation.
by freemindfade innot sure if anything will come of this.
but i signed it.. https://www.change.org/p/united-states-attorney-general-investigate-the-watchtower-society-of-jehovah-s-witnesses-re-child-sexual-abuse?recruiter=363165656&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink.
-
-
defender of truth
I don't know where Flipper heard this 1,000 signatures thing, but it is not accurate
".. it needs 383 more to make the 1,000 needed to get submitted I believe to get a commission looking into this in the U.S."
Change.org has no power to require anyone to look at it. That's We The People.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/
Great idea by the way, this thing clearly has movement behind it..
But there are some things to be aware of. We the People site has a 100,000 target.
In order to receive a response, a petition must hit 100,000 signatures within 30 days — a number that was raised from 30,000 in January of 2013. Under the new 60-day deadline, the process "is going to look a little different," writes chief digital officer Jason Goldman. Based on the statement, that involves a new panel of people who will coordinate responses.
And in a somewhat bigger change, massive petition site Change.org is now integrating with We the People, which means that signatures collected there can count towards the 100,000 total.
www.theverge.com/2015/7/28/9060959/white-house-we-the-people-petition-change-org
To cross the first threshold and be searchable within WhiteHouse.gov, a petition must reach 150 signatures within 30 days.
To cross the second threshold and require a response, a petition must reach 100,000 signatures within 30 days.
Change.org petitions have no power in themselves, they are just a platform.
If you want help to put together a well-worded (as in legally well worded, for example I personally would leave out the "mentally diseased and apostate lies stuff", this is going to the government and they don't have a clue what you're talking about.)..
I'd recommend contacting AAWA and get a We the People petition arranged.
www.aawa.co/about-aawa/contact-us/
Or at least get advice from them on how to get a petition you write media attention.
www.change.org/en-GB/guides/get-the-story-to-media
Just trying to help, I'm not having a go here.. Best of luck with your good idea ;)